This week: We…Are…THORRIORS! We’ve gone on and on about our love for Valient Thorr in the past, so we figured it was time to dedicate an entire segment to this incredible band. They’re on tour now, so hit that link and check them out.
Beyond that, we discuss Metallica’s mission to catch a killer, the never-ending saga of Geoff Tate, overzealous fans, and whether or not Metallica’s landmark album “…And Justice for All” secretly sucks.
Thanks for listening!
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Gents,
The songs on …And Justice For All are great. When Justice first came out it was like nothing else out there. When I picked it up, I listened to it over and over and loved every second.
That being said, the production sucks. The sound as a whole seems like they recorded the album from speakers played through a tin can with a pillow stuffed inside.
I thought it sounded like crap because I had crappy speakers. Little did I know. It wasn’t until a couple years later a friend of mine who had an uber-stereo played it. We pretty much had to turn the bass all the way up, and it finally gave it a little depth. But overall, I was disappointed that Metallica would release an album that sounds unfinished, or at the very least not-right.
The drums sound terrible. Not being a drummer, I don’t know why. But I do have ears, so I can hear that they suck.
The guitars and vocals seem like they would have a great tone to them, but the overall production makes them sound horrible. There is no mid-range tone, so there isn’t any depth to the sound. But the guitar playing is totally awesome, and Hetfield’s lyrics on this album are great.
If there were bass tracks in the mix, I am sure it would sound terrible too.
Does …And Justice For All suck? I vote no. The songs, energy, and mood override the terrible production value. That being said, I prefer the live versions to the songs rather than the album itself.
The version of “Harvester Of Sorrow” in Russia from the “Year and a half in the life of…” video is the best version ever. Here is a random piece of Metallica/Tropizm trivia no one cares about. I was at the Phoenix show that was in that documentary. It had some Metallica history significance because it was their first show after James got blown up in Canada.
Isn’t Justice the first album Bob Rock produced for them? I guess it is better than that overly-produced shiny pile o’ crap “Dr Feelgood”. But he totally F’d this thing up.
This is by far the worst produced album Metallica put out, including “Kill ‘Em All”, which really says a lot. But it is not even close to being the worst album they ever put out.
Tropizm
…And Justice really had two producers. Mike Clink started the job and then Flemming Rasmussen came in and finished the job. I don’t know why the production sucks so bad. Flemming did RTL and Master…. Maybe the album was to far gone by the time he got back there and couldn’t really fix it. I wish they would go back and remaster this album. It deserves so much better.
So, I take it you guys like Valient Thorr?
I heard you mention something about an upcoming documentary about Death in which Scott Mosier is involved. Death is one my all-time favorite bands, so when I heard what you said, I immediately went to Google to find out more. After finding out the facts, I felt I should share it with here to prevent any further confustion.
So there IS a documentary, with Mosier as one of the producers, about a band named Death. But it’s not the metal band, unfortunately. It’s about a mostly unknown garage rock / “protopunk” band from the 70s. Here is a news article about it:
http://www.afropunk.com/profiles/blogs/ap-quickie-a-band-called-death-docu-at-the-la-film-festival
And here is the band’s Wikipedia page…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(protopunk_band)
In response to this week’s VS, I’m gonna have to agree with John for the most part. Being the huge fan of pre-black album Metallica that I am, I will always like the Justice album, but I still remember buying it the day it was released (on cassette, remember those?). After ripping off the cellophane right there in the parking lot of the store, I inserted the cassette into my stereo and listened to Blackened’s guitar intro fade in as my excitement built up. When the drums and main riff kicked in, I remember thinking to myself “WTF, this sounds wrong. The guitar sounds muffled, and the drums sounds like shit.” Regardless, I listened to the whole album repeatedly over the following days and weeks, and the album’s sound became less of an issue as I got used to it. But listening to it these days, the ablum’s terrible sound definitely detracts from its overall quality.
Apart from the album’s shitty mixing, I really liked the songs themselves. That said, I agree with John that a couple of them are a bit “tedious.” And Justice For All (9:46) and Frayed Ends of Sanity (7:41) could stand to have a couple minutes trimmed off. But in the case of two other long songs, One (7:24) and To Live Is To Die (9:49), I’d say they’re fine as is. One tells a story (based on an old novel) of a soldier who is essentially trapped in his own body after an artillery blast leaves him limbless, deaf and blind, while his brain still functions normally. To Live Is to Die is a tribute to Cliff, using music and lyrics written by him, so IMO it’s exempt from being critiqued.
If ever there was an album that needed a remastered version, AJFA is way overdue for that treatment.
I commented on the VS page but I’ll reiterate here…AJFA is not a shitty album by a long shot. It has shitty sound production but the songs trump it for me. I wish they would remaster this album as it is their last good album before the downfall that started with the Black album.
I was going to write in a couple weeks ago when I first heard you mention Queensryche on the show because they are on my list of favorite bands from the 80s. I actually found them when my friend and I signed up for the Columbia record club as teenagers. We got like 7 free tapes and then ‘only had to buy 12 more over three years’ or something like that. It was a scam that haunted me for years but we were looking through the free offering stickers and saw the name Queensryche. We thought they sounded cool so got both of the albums on offering, The Warning and Rage for Order. I really liked those albums even though they were much different than the metal I was really into at the time. I would never label Queensryche as ‘metal’ but rather more prog hard rock. Surprising that I liked it but I did and a big reason was Tate’s vocals. Mindcrime would be on my personal list of favorite 25 albums and, IMO, stands with some of the best concept albums out there. It is a shame that after 30 years together Tate really turned out to be such a douche but I still love early Queensryche and his ass-hattery doesn’t change that.
I’m also surprised to actually hear what Valient Thorr sounds like. After hearing you rave about them all this time I had it in my head that they would be more of a thrash metal band (not my cup of tea), but was very pleasantly surprised. I know you said you played one of their songs as the last song on an earlier podcast but I don’t remember it. I’m definitely going to check them out!
Late to the party! I finally got a chance to listen to the show. Fuckin eh Valiant Thorr…I’ve said it before, but I saw them when they came to town with Motorhead and clutch. I love Motorhead, and I fucking LOVE clutch, but Thorr was damned near my favorite band that night. Valiant made the crowd sit down with him so he could tell a story. Who the fuck does that? That’s rad. When they hit the stage, I looked at my girlfriend and said who the fuck are these guys? Nice boots! And about 3 minutes after they left the stage, I looked at my girlfriend and said What the fuck just happened? I need some of those boots!
Justice does NOT suck. Get your head out of your ass. Production included, the vast majority of the songs speak volumes for where they were as a band at that time. I had always heard the rumour that they were still in the mindset that nobody could replace Cliff, so they damn near eliminated the bass on that record. I had subwoofers in my truck, so the kick drum still pounded a bit for me. Blackened shook the mirrors like a mofo.
Fuckin deadly show yet again boys!